Comments on: Nature, Evolution, Love and Karma http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/ A journal about consciousness, buddhism, cosmology and entheogens. Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:30:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: admin http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-333 admin Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:06:20 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-333 Peter - I couldn't agree more. Andre - Ken Wilber talks about a pre-trans falacy, similar to what you are mentioning, that in the begining we have no ego, then we have an ego, then we can possibly transcend it. The pre (before ego) seems quite similar to the Trans (beyond ego) but they are not the same. The pre stage has no discernment while the transcended stage includes discernment/intelligence and goes beyond to wisdom. Peter – I couldn’t agree more.

Andre – Ken Wilber talks about a pre-trans falacy, similar to what you are mentioning, that in the begining we have no ego, then we have an ego, then we can possibly transcend it. The pre (before ego) seems quite similar to the Trans (beyond ego) but they are not the same. The pre stage has no discernment while the transcended stage includes discernment/intelligence and goes beyond to wisdom.

]]> By: Peter http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-332 Peter Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:36:28 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-332 A stray thought regarding your statement that "It’s no fluke that babies are so darn cute!" Of course, in any objective sense, they're not. Dumb-looking little things shitting all over themselves and pissing on you when you hold 'em. More precisely, and supporting your basic point, we're wired to be blind to their idiocy and the apparent absence of wisdom, strength, or beauty in 'em, and to see them as so cute as to inspire protection. And of course that instinct is strongest with regard to our own: other people's babies really are underwhelming, but ours are miracles. A stray thought regarding your statement that “It’s no fluke that babies are so darn cute!” Of course, in any objective sense, they’re not. Dumb-looking little things shitting all over themselves and pissing on you when you hold ‘em. More precisely, and supporting your basic point, we’re wired to be blind to their idiocy and the apparent absence of wisdom, strength, or beauty in ‘em, and to see them as so cute as to inspire protection. And of course that instinct is strongest with regard to our own: other people’s babies really are underwhelming, but ours are miracles.

]]> By: Andre http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Andre Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:15:43 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-218 I would add that human suffering comes about from the labels of bad and good we attach to events and things. Someone dying is not a bad thing, for the person who passed they are, supposedly, reunited with the whole, it is only the form that is lost, however for friends left behind it is bad, we are attached to the form that was the person. I've come to realize it is selfish to mourn those who have passed, or to feel sorrow for those who are passing. It rather should be a celebration of life, coming full circle, passing onto the next step. I would also add that perhaps the purpose of our ignorance is that we may reach oneness/enlightenment/nirvana/awakening. Animals act instinctually, they only have true nature, but not awareness of mortality, at the human level we have ego, we become aware of our mortality. Osho suggests the reason we cannot remember anything prior to 3 or 4 years old is due to not yet having an ego. We are still animal in nature. This ego offers us a chance to transcend into heaven in this human life, and free ourselves of Samsara. Escaping Samsara is the goal, I dont think it possible, without first having an ego and experiencing dualism, to realize the One. I would add that human suffering comes about from the labels of bad and good we attach to events and things. Someone dying is not a bad thing, for the person who passed they are, supposedly, reunited with the whole, it is only the form that is lost, however for friends left behind it is bad, we are attached to the form that was the person. I’ve come to realize it is selfish to mourn those who have passed, or to feel sorrow for those who are passing. It rather should be a celebration of life, coming full circle, passing onto the next step.

I would also add that perhaps the purpose of our ignorance is that we may reach oneness/enlightenment/nirvana/awakening. Animals act instinctually, they only have true nature, but not awareness of mortality, at the human level we have ego, we become aware of our mortality. Osho suggests the reason we cannot remember anything prior to 3 or 4 years old is due to not yet having an ego. We are still animal in nature. This ego offers us a chance to transcend into heaven in this human life, and free ourselves of Samsara. Escaping Samsara is the goal, I dont think it possible, without first having an ego and experiencing dualism, to realize the One.

]]> By: Alberto http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-161 Alberto Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:41:42 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-161 It seems to me that,here in the West,we are obsessed searching for "purpose",is it the same in the Buddhist tradition?,my impression is that Buddhism does not search for purpose,but centers in compassion and putting an end to suffering,is this,in your view ,a correct vision of Buddhism? It seems to me that,here in the West,we are obsessed searching for “purpose”,is it the same in the Buddhist tradition?,my impression is that Buddhism does not search for purpose,but centers in compassion and putting an end to suffering,is this,in your view ,a correct vision of Buddhism?

]]> By: admin http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-159 admin Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:51:12 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-159 It is beyond me to attempt to imagine what started it all, but at some point there was a primordial division - maybe the oneness noticed itself. and from there the duality continued, and evolution began. Perhaps in a form of big bang, who knows. In this way, all that we see in our world, all a product of evolution, including ourselves, is fundamentally rooted in ignorance. There cannot be evolution without dualism such as male and female, self and other, friend and foe. Even the fundamental particles have their opposites. So is there a purpose to this ignorance? I have no idea. Why did the separation happen in the first place? Why do remain ignorant of our fundamental unity? Usually i think that it just happened and it is our lot and there is no real purpose and reason for our reality. However once in a while I get the paranoid-like feeling that our consensus reality is a grand training ground for us to learn to be good and caring, and there are higher dimensional beings who have created it all and sent us here. These moments of 'paranoia' pass and i come back to a simpler view, but I can't help but be fascinated by them. It is beyond me to attempt to imagine what started it all, but at some point there was a primordial division – maybe the oneness noticed itself. and from there the duality continued, and evolution began. Perhaps in a form of big bang, who knows. In this way, all that we see in our world, all a product of evolution, including ourselves, is fundamentally rooted in ignorance. There cannot be evolution without dualism such as male and female, self and other, friend and foe. Even the fundamental particles have their opposites.

So is there a purpose to this ignorance? I have no idea. Why did the separation happen in the first place? Why do remain ignorant of our fundamental unity?

Usually i think that it just happened and it is our lot and there is no real purpose and reason for our reality. However once in a while I get the paranoid-like feeling that our consensus reality is a grand training ground for us to learn to be good and caring, and there are higher dimensional beings who have created it all and sent us here. These moments of ‘paranoia’ pass and i come back to a simpler view, but I can’t help but be fascinated by them.

]]> By: Alberto http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-158 Alberto Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:25:30 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-158 Hi Deryk,one question at this time: If we accept that there is an evolutionary process underway,then this "ignorance of our true nature" must have an evolutionary purpose,don't you think? Alberto Hi Deryk,one question at this time: If we accept that there is an evolutionary process underway,then this “ignorance of our true nature” must have an evolutionary purpose,don’t you think?

Alberto

]]> By: admin http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-157 admin Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:37:08 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-157 Thanks both for the comments. Alberto, I agree that love is only a part of nature, and there are many more destructive emotions. From the buddhist perspective, all of this is temporary confusion, (as opposed to original sin) similar to clouds obscuring the sun. We act with anger, greed, desire and jealousy because we are ignorant of our true nature, which is totally pure and awake. I think that at the time of death we reconnect with this awake purity, which is an unconditional love, not the eros type love we usually experience. Kevin, when i was going through a tough end of a relationship a number of years ago, I thought that i was in love with this woman, however when it ended, i was in so much pain, I thought 'how can this be love if it is so much pain'. Then after listening to some <a href="http://www.learnoutloud.com/Sale-Section/Self-Development/Spirituality/Teachings-on-Love/1550" rel="nofollow">beautiful talks by Thich Nhat Hanh</a>, I realized that what I was experiencing was more attachment disguised as love, and that true love in unrequited, there is a giving with no expectation of anything in return. that was a big eye opener for me. Thanks both for the comments.

Alberto, I agree that love is only a part of nature, and there are many more destructive emotions. From the buddhist perspective, all of this is temporary confusion, (as opposed to original sin) similar to clouds obscuring the sun. We act with anger, greed, desire and jealousy because we are ignorant of our true nature, which is totally pure and awake. I think that at the time of death we reconnect with this awake purity, which is an unconditional love, not the eros type love we usually experience.

Kevin, when i was going through a tough end of a relationship a number of years ago, I thought that i was in love with this woman, however when it ended, i was in so much pain, I thought ‘how can this be love if it is so much pain’. Then after listening to some beautiful talks by Thich Nhat Hanh, I realized that what I was experiencing was more attachment disguised as love, and that true love in unrequited, there is a giving with no expectation of anything in return. that was a big eye opener for me.

]]> By: kevin http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-149 kevin Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:54:25 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-149 Oh, what a lovely response Deryk. I think this has helped sort out some stuff for me--including issues that seem similar to yours, Alberto. Two kinds of loves--emotional love that's a product of our emotional system (I see neuropeptides and the molecules of emotion and so forth), and then that second "love" that doesn't come from our brain/nervous sytem at all, but from us just feeling or somehow connecting with the actual nature of matter itself--the material that makes up our brains and so forth. If I hear you right then, evolution would have fashioned the brain which produces anger, hate, fear, terror etc. as well as an emotion within us (advantageous for child-rearing and pair-bonding and who knows what else) which so closely mimics the deepest down "oneness" thing that we've given both the same name: "love"! I love it. And of course they're not the same at all. "Emotional love" fixates on one thing/one person, buffets us, grips us, leaves us addicted, in withdrawal etc. Whereas oneness just is. We get "one-ed" by the lunch lady's smile, or by the stillness of a sunset, by a taste.. etc. Yay Oneness! I thank you humbly, Deryk, for an insight that's surely a product of the one world we all are. Oh, what a lovely response Deryk. I think this has helped sort out some stuff for me–including issues that seem similar to yours, Alberto. Two kinds of loves–emotional love that’s a product of our emotional system (I see neuropeptides and the molecules of emotion and so forth), and then that second “love” that doesn’t come from our brain/nervous sytem at all, but from us just feeling or somehow connecting with the actual nature of matter itself–the material that makes up our brains and so forth. If I hear you right then, evolution would have fashioned the brain which produces anger, hate, fear, terror etc. as well as an emotion within us (advantageous for child-rearing and pair-bonding and who knows what else) which so closely mimics the deepest down “oneness” thing that we’ve given both the same name: “love”! I love it. And of course they’re not the same at all. “Emotional love” fixates on one thing/one person, buffets us, grips us, leaves us addicted, in withdrawal etc. Whereas oneness just is. We get “one-ed” by the lunch lady’s smile, or by the stillness of a sunset, by a taste.. etc.
Yay Oneness!
I thank you humbly, Deryk, for an insight that’s surely a product of the one world we all are.

]]> By: Alberto http://natureofmind.org/222/nature-evolution-love-and-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-139 Alberto Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:12:03 +0000 http://natureofmind.org/?p=222#comment-139 Señor,I did not say that "Love is the basis of existence",but what I said was:"Love seems to be an anomaly rather than anything else",and also that, in the evolutionary process the "purpose" (if there is such a thing) of Love is ambiguous,to say the least,as violence seems to be the main ingredient in nature's relentless way "foward" (and apparently it is not clear if we are going foward). Of course,lots of people would like to think that Love is the main ingredient in nature,and granted,it would be nice,but to me it does not look like that.However,I am rather astonished,to say the least,by NDEs and the apparent experience of Unconditional Love at the moment of death,my question is:"Why so much Love all of a sudden"? I will let you express yourself and thank you for listening and responding to these rants of mine! Cordially Alberto Señor,I did not say that “Love is the basis of existence”,but what I said was:”Love seems to be an anomaly rather than anything else”,and also that, in the evolutionary process the “purpose” (if there is such a thing) of Love is ambiguous,to say the least,as violence seems to be the main ingredient in nature’s relentless way “foward” (and apparently it is not clear if we are going foward).
Of course,lots of people would like to think that Love is the main ingredient in nature,and granted,it would be nice,but to me it does not look like that.However,I am rather astonished,to say the least,by NDEs and the apparent experience of Unconditional Love at the moment of death,my question is:”Why so much Love all of a sudden”?
I will let you express yourself and thank you for listening and responding to these rants of mine!
Cordially

Alberto

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